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	<title>Comments on: Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us</title>
	<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
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 		<title>Comment on Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us by: Ho John Lee's Weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-522</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-522</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;How (and where) to download your del.icio.us bookmarks&lt;/strong&gt;

	Last Friday&amp;#8217;s announcement that Yahoo is buying del.icio.us has probably got more than a few people thinking about the future of the service and whether they want to keep using it.  In any case, as with all of the interesting and useful web serv...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>How (and where) to download your del.icio.us bookmarks</strong></p>
	<p>	Last Friday&#8217;s announcement that Yahoo is buying del.icio.us has probably got more than a few people thinking about the future of the service and whether they want to keep using it.  In any case, as with all of the interesting and useful web serv&#8230;
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 		<title>Comment on Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us by: hjl</title>
		<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-514</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-514</guid>
					<description>Greg - I agree on the hazards of blindly taking tags at face value, especially as tagging moves from the early adopters to a broader, more visible audience. Jeff also commented on the problem of thousands of spammers coming on board like Usenet back when the AOL users landed. In the absense of filters, most newsgroups became unusable within weeks.

I think metrics around reputation and relationship to trusted sources can keep the signal to noise ratio higher, at least for using bookmarking and tagging as input to search, since spamming patterns can be identified and blocked over time. 

In the limited volume of traffic I see here, there are several prominent clusters of spam commenter topics and network signatures which can be used to filter most of the noise automatically. I'm not sure what the del.icio.us team put in place a while back after spam started floating to the &quot;Popular&quot; list but it's clearly helped reduce the noise. Plus, all posts are tied to a user name, providing another tool for screening.

Applications that rely on real-time or near-time input (buzz trackers, etc) have a harder problem since they generally have to make a decision on the spot. 

Bookmarking and tagging by a honest user should be a useful indicator for relevance and reveal some clues about topical intent as well. Up to this point, the average del.icio.us (or any tagging service) user is generally &quot;honest&quot; and somewhat well informed. A rapid expansion to millions of new users on Yahoo may dilute the average quality of the incoming bookmarks, and is likely to amplify the popularity of the popular bookmarks, since they are both &quot;interesting&quot; and visible. It might work out that all bookmarks with more than a few votes are worth paying attention to. This would be analogous to the Bloglines metrics around the number of feeds with more than N subscribers, hardly any have more than 50 subs.

Perhaps there are natural size limits for a useful social tagging community within a given topic domain, below which there aren't enough eyeballs to capture interesting content and provide enough votes, and above which the items, tags, and taggers need to be clustered down to manageable size. 

Still thinking about this. Also continuing to look at how to manage personal bookmarking, tag and attention data, with an eye toward search. I'm sure it's on a lot of people's minds this weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Greg - I agree on the hazards of blindly taking tags at face value, especially as tagging moves from the early adopters to a broader, more visible audience. Jeff also commented on the problem of thousands of spammers coming on board like Usenet back when the AOL users landed. In the absense of filters, most newsgroups became unusable within weeks.</p>
	<p>I think metrics around reputation and relationship to trusted sources can keep the signal to noise ratio higher, at least for using bookmarking and tagging as input to search, since spamming patterns can be identified and blocked over time. </p>
	<p>In the limited volume of traffic I see here, there are several prominent clusters of spam commenter topics and network signatures which can be used to filter most of the noise automatically. I&#8217;m not sure what the del.icio.us team put in place a while back after spam started floating to the &#8220;Popular&#8221; list but it&#8217;s clearly helped reduce the noise. Plus, all posts are tied to a user name, providing another tool for screening.</p>
	<p>Applications that rely on real-time or near-time input (buzz trackers, etc) have a harder problem since they generally have to make a decision on the spot. </p>
	<p>Bookmarking and tagging by a honest user should be a useful indicator for relevance and reveal some clues about topical intent as well. Up to this point, the average del.icio.us (or any tagging service) user is generally &#8220;honest&#8221; and somewhat well informed. A rapid expansion to millions of new users on Yahoo may dilute the average quality of the incoming bookmarks, and is likely to amplify the popularity of the popular bookmarks, since they are both &#8220;interesting&#8221; and visible. It might work out that all bookmarks with more than a few votes are worth paying attention to. This would be analogous to the Bloglines metrics around the number of feeds with more than N subscribers, hardly any have more than 50 subs.</p>
	<p>Perhaps there are natural size limits for a useful social tagging community within a given topic domain, below which there aren&#8217;t enough eyeballs to capture interesting content and provide enough votes, and above which the items, tags, and taggers need to be clustered down to manageable size. </p>
	<p>Still thinking about this. Also continuing to look at how to manage personal bookmarking, tag and attention data, with an eye toward search. I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s on a lot of people&#8217;s minds this weekend.
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 		<title>Comment on Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us by: Greg Linden</title>
		<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-513</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-513</guid>
					<description>Ho John Lee, you said, &quot;The early adopters that have used del.icio.us up to this point are unlikely to bookmark spam or very uninteresting pages.&quot;

I think it is a dangerous assumption that this can continue as tagging tries to enter the mainstream.  As sites like del.icio.us become more popular, the reward from spamming them increases substantially.

For more on tagging and its potential impact on search, see my previous weblog post, &quot;Questioning tags&quot;:

http://glinden.blogspot.com/2005/04/questioning-tags.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ho John Lee, you said, &#8220;The early adopters that have used del.icio.us up to this point are unlikely to bookmark spam or very uninteresting pages.&#8221;</p>
	<p>I think it is a dangerous assumption that this can continue as tagging tries to enter the mainstream.  As sites like del.icio.us become more popular, the reward from spamming them increases substantially.</p>
	<p>For more on tagging and its potential impact on search, see my previous weblog post, &#8220;Questioning tags&#8221;:</p>
	<p><a rel='nofollow' href='http://glinden.blogspot.com/2005/04/questioning-tags.html' rel='nofollow'>http://glinden.blogspot.com/2005/04/questioning-tags.html</a>
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 		<title>Comment on Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us by: Kunal</title>
		<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-512</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 07:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-512</guid>
					<description>Yahoo! has chosen to grow via acquisitions. Google merely opts to build their own tools. That aside, it seems that they are focusing on two different areas.

Yahoo! is clearly looking to build an extend their lifestyle brand:
1. Flickr = photos
2. del.icio.us = links
3. Upcoming = events

I bet that they'll go for Odeo next. Sure they offer a podcasting engine now - but why not incorporate an existing tool?

I agree, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yahoo! has chosen to grow via acquisitions. Google merely opts to build their own tools. That aside, it seems that they are focusing on two different areas.</p>
	<p>Yahoo! is clearly looking to build an extend their lifestyle brand:<br />
1. Flickr = photos<br />
2. del.icio.us = links<br />
3. Upcoming = events</p>
	<p>I bet that they&#8217;ll go for Odeo next. Sure they offer a podcasting engine now - but why not incorporate an existing tool?</p>
	<p>I agree, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.
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 		<title>Comment on Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us by: Rob Szarka</title>
		<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-511</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 03:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-511</guid>
					<description>Google does have a bookmarking feature with tagging, but it's kind of hidden away in the personalized search stuff. Not as easy to access as del.icio.us (yet).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Google does have a bookmarking feature with tagging, but it&#8217;s kind of hidden away in the personalized search stuff. Not as easy to access as del.icio.us (yet).
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 		<title>Comment on Yahoo goes after more tagging assets, buys del.icio.us by: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-510</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/archives/2005/12/09/yahoo-goes-after-more-tagging-assets-buys-delicious/#comment-510</guid>
					<description>Great article, I really enjoyed it.

Google has some pretty sophisticated clustering algorithms to try and do this computationally.  Is there really enough user data to make a big difference? After all isn't spending millions and millions building a user community a riskier move than using that same amount of money to research algorithms and purchase several super computers?  

Google has started tagging in GMail and in Personalized Bookmarks.  Not to mention Google base...   I think they are waiting to see what happens before jumping in with two feet.  

Also, what happens when spammers can hire thousands of people in India and China to start spamming these networks?  It happened to Usenet, what's to prevent it from happening again?

You can read more of my reponse to the acquisition in &lt;a href=&quot;http://searchcafe.blogspot.com/2005/12/yahoo-acquires-delicious-30-mln.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my response&lt;/a&gt; to the news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Great article, I really enjoyed it.</p>
	<p>Google has some pretty sophisticated clustering algorithms to try and do this computationally.  Is there really enough user data to make a big difference? After all isn&#8217;t spending millions and millions building a user community a riskier move than using that same amount of money to research algorithms and purchase several super computers?  </p>
	<p>Google has started tagging in GMail and in Personalized Bookmarks.  Not to mention Google base&#8230;   I think they are waiting to see what happens before jumping in with two feet.  </p>
	<p>Also, what happens when spammers can hire thousands of people in India and China to start spamming these networks?  It happened to Usenet, what&#8217;s to prevent it from happening again?</p>
	<p>You can read more of my reponse to the acquisition in <a rel='nofollow' href="http://searchcafe.blogspot.com/2005/12/yahoo-acquires-delicious-30-mln.html" rel="nofollow">my response</a> to the news.
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